Moderator: From a participant in Slovenia, “David, what is the quickest way to Self-realization or experiencing Shakti? Almost everybody experiences something, as I read your website.”
David: What experience do you have? I suggest that you are having an experience or have had experiences that are true and significant because you keep coming back. So, I’m going to ask you if you can comment on what makes you come back. Is it the pure force of your ignorant seeking? Is it the contraction in your suffering that is simply self-insisted or self-willed, bent on doing merely what it wishes? Or is there another feeling, and perhaps reasons for your coming back to my webcasts again and again?
Moderator: Response, “It seems I will continue to come back if there is no interest in life and material possessions and this seems the only way. I have this unexplained force in me, which wants to love the ones for whom I believe they have achieved something that I haven’t.”
David: So, you’re coming here is, beginning with your third point, a way to offer love. Your second point was that there is a force in you, a compulsion that brings you here. And your first comment was that this seems the only way. We have to look into what the only way is. Is it merely a removal away from what you describe as external suffering or does it contain within it something else? We are here focusing on this critical idea of “the way”. The way that you feel you come to embrace here but also the way in which you are led to be here. What is inside this way? This is self-inquiry. Let’s do it. What is inside the way?
Moderator: Response, “Knowledge of spiritual books and beliefs that have been created over the years that enlightenment is possible and actually true, which it seems isn’t yet for me.”
David: I’m glad you said “seems”. I’m glad you’re just dancing with this conversation; you’re just flowing with it. And I think you appreciate, as I do, that the purpose of dialog is not to finally affirm something once and for all but just to create a place of opening. Inside that opening something can happen, something can be revealed. But the basis for that revelation is the quality of non-expectation, non-demand. Non-demand becomes the foundation for feeling what happens inside of a dialog. The dialog might contain content that appears to confirm lack of knowledge. The dialog must begin somewhere. So, the dialog begins with the simple acknowledgment of “what is” in both people who are engaging in the dialog. Since the dialog, the conversation, is about finding out, it’s therefore about exploration. When we explore, when our mind is in an exploring style, it’s simply posturing itself in order to see. In other words, its intent is rooted in innocence.
When you know you don’t know, then you are open and curious. That curiosity forms the basis of true understanding, of the actual understanding. Not casual understanding but the understanding, first of all, of what actually is the case. The state of Being you begin with, the state of Being you are living in now and then the subsequent exploration of that area. Because the teachings say, the great teachings of self-inquiry, that you can only be what you are genuinely. You can’t fake it, you can’t pretend to be somewhere else. Since you cannot fake it you are automatically thrust in a position of simple Being. It does not matter that the interpretation of that simple Being could be one of non-freedom. It’s only important that it be acknowledged that there is a genuine beginning in the mind to want to know. The mind’s ability to know is rooted automatically, without choice in this area of non-duality. I called it “what is” previously. Now I’m calling it “non-duality” for the simple reason that you cannot escape from what is. It’s already the case, and something that is already the case can only be unsplintered. It cannot be two. There cannot be an observer and then an object of observation. There can only be simple observation, which here is Being.
When we understand in this way, we are understanding positively. We are understanding from a standpoint of inherent openness; not a created sense of openness based on the admission of ignorance. So, when we open ourselves in this way to our own Being and also in relationship to our dialog, our conversation, we are not interested in getting anywhere. We’re actually not involved even in attaining what the holy scriptures talked about. We’re interested in learning how to rest and also to think, and therefore to inquire innocently; nothing else, not one step beyond that. The reason why I say that is because in the next step you are now fighting with yourself. Self-fighting, self-judgment must be eliminated. It cannot be eliminated through a strategy that confronts self-judgment. The strategy itself is self-judgment, so we’re not interested then in a resolution of conflict. Conflict resolution and the inquiry into wisdom are complete opposites. Conflict resolution is what the entire human civilization is doing constantly: judging itself and then trying to fix itself without ever actually observing what the case is. So, it’s very important to realize that the consciousness which one inhabits is the actual place of truth. It’s actually the dwelling place of Truth itself. Now, that does not mean you have to be experiencing something called “truth”. We’re not interested in a particular experience when we engage in dialog and inquiry.
Remember, we’re not traveling the path to get somewhere. It only has to do with the sudden recognition that you already are where you need to be and that that beginning place is perfect. It doesn’t mean that you are realized. Realization is just a concept, enlightenment is just an idea as far as this conversation goes. We are not interested in verifying, substantiating, endorsing or guaranteeing any particular result. Consciousness is inherently free without boundary. It’s simply a question then, of noticing that, not creating it, but noticing it. To notice something you’re not in a position to do anything but see. In that case, seeing is Being, recognition is Being and there is no two, there is not duality contained in that process. Let me know if that makes sense. Have you been following?
Moderator: [speaking for participant from Slovenia] Yes, I did..
David: So, what is your state of Being in this moment? Can you talk to me innocently, without hyper-intellectuality, without over-stimulating the intellect, what the nature of your Being is now? Or your mind?
Moderator: Response: “A combination of ugly past and trying to forget all and live in a way I believe you do, which is probably more relaxed and meditative.’’
David: Do you feel anything else? Anything more intimate inside of your Being? I appreciate you sharing the content of your experience, that’s very important. But I want to re-point your attention back to the thread of our conversation, the feeling inside of it. What do you feel about us, just you and me now?
Moderator: Relaxation which is here and now.
David: So, when you say “relaxation which is here and now,” you’re pointing very specifically to a new experience or something fresh. Is that correct?
David: Inside that freshness or newness, do you feel relief, lightness?
David: Do you feel the resolution, therefore, of that ugliness? Can you see how this is not in that?
Moderator: Yes, it is gone for a few moments or minutes.
David: Would you say that there is love inside this area now, inside these few seconds or few minutes?
David: Would you say then, that inside of that love and that sense of transcending suffering, which you described beautifully with the word “ugliness,” that there is a whole unique quality to your Being? That in fact your Being has changed and not merely your thoughts?
Moderator: It has, yes.
David: This is resolution. This is the breaking of the pattern of karma. This is the penetration of samsara. This is the dissolution of the ego, of the suffering mind. You can see that it is a completely different area, that the area which we described as ugly, is a place where the mind is simply touched by some quality of experience. And that this other location is simply a place where love is, where conflict ceases, where that whole identity of ugliness which is the “me” disappears, even if it is for just a few moments. Can you confirm this?
Moderator: Of course.
David: Now as our conversation is deepening, as we are really listening to each other now, do you notice that your Being continues to be absorbed in this innocence or love or quietness?
David: Do you see how love is freedom?
David: Do you see how the mind cannot possibly extricate itself through self-effort?
Moderator: Somehow, this time, yes.
David: Forget about “somehow this time,” there’s only this time. It’s only always like this, it’s never not like this. Do you follow?
David: Do you also follow or can you conclude that you cannot make this permanent, that it’s already permanent?
David: Now, how does that make you feel?
Moderator: The response is, “It’s a problem; I want to make it permanent.”
David: Well, to try to make something permanent which is already the case is quite impossible, isn’t it? Just listen.
David: To insist that something become permanent is to ask it to be into the future, but in this dialog, in this conversation, I think we’ve both understood that there can be no future. Yes?
David: We’ve felt that, we haven’t concluded it. We haven’t made a conclusion that that is the case because we can’t be in a position to do so. But we can feel inside of this state of being held by grace that this is so. Do you feel like you are being held in grace in this moment?
David: Thus, the desire for permanence is just a form of anxiety. It is to be recognized as such. Do you agree?
Moderator: I’m learning, yes.
David: Yes, we are both learning moment by moment, right now. We are both learning just as we go along because we said at the beginning that this is a process of exploration; we are exploring, we are explorers of consciousness. Explorers are only interested in taking note, seeing what is and then letting what is be. What is must be left to be. Yes?
David: What is, is Being. Being is truth.
David: So, we are now in a position to simply admit to each other that there can be no permanence. Permanence is simply an insistence inside the mind that we move away from the innocence of what is into a locked-down sense of security. Thus, we are not interested in security. We are not interested in the claim to permanence. Can we be in that together now?
David: One is not in a position to make a demand. I am not, you are not; no separate person is in a position to make a demand upon reality to either stay and be the same or continue into the future. Is that clear?
David: Are you in this feeling with me?
David: Do you feel a sense of unconditional openness? Openness with no condition?
David: You’re thinking about everything I say and you are checking in with your subjectivity. Is that correct? Every answer you give, you’re observing, you’re taking note and then you’re giving a response?
David: Can you appreciate the beauty of this instant together?
David: Now, can you let go of that beauty? Can you let go of that instant? Just the way, when a beautiful bird, a hawk, lands outside on one of the trees on my back yard, and I get to see its red tail from twenty feet away. I have no desire to run outside and hold that bird. I don’t run to my camera and take a picture. I’m so moved in that moment, that that gift is being given, that I simply allow myself to become the bird. I become the hawk. Do you understand?
Moderator: Yes I do.
David: So there’s no truth in this moment. There’s only emptiness. Yes?
David: Lovely. Any other question before we close today’s webcast?
Moderator: Thank you.
David: Thank you.
Moderator: From a participant in Woodstock New York, “I experienced all that was just said. How wonderful! Is your grace always present?”
David: There’s no “always”. There’s just empty. Do you follow?
Moderator: Yes, I think so.
David: If “always” means always empty, the answer is yes. If “always” means always full, the answer is yes. If “always” means always available, always is already the case, always is truth itself, the answer is yes. If “always” means factually permanent in literal time and space, the answer is no, because there is no objective time and space for anything to be permanent.
David: Do you like being spoken to like this? Do you like this feeling?
Moderator: Yes, very much.
David: If you drink enough of this feeling in, it will put an end to all of your thirst forever.
Moderator: Okay, I will thank you.
David: No! No thanks. Just enjoy.
Moderator: From a participant in London, “Hello David, I’m feeling spacious and contented. It feels familiar and I am enjoying.”
David: Wonderful. Namaste.